New Pricing System

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ponasoft asked Mar 31, '17

New Pricing System

Hi,

Unity 5.6 just released today and i want to start my turn based game again. I tried playfab before. Documentation is good and unicorn sample is excellent for devs like me who wants to dive in qiuckly and i really consider to use it. I just saw pricing page is updated but old limits still did not changed in game manager area. Will they be updated as pricing page? If so virtual currency (1) and items in inventory (25) limits really concern me. is it really possible to make a game with only one currency and earn from it? there should be at least 2 currencies (ex: gold and gem) so we can earn and move to professional from basic. I think you should consider the limits that an indie programmer can design the game without limit but needs to move when it starts to earn such as first 100k mau free then paid without any limit which is done by one of the competitors. I also wonder how mau really calculated. Lets say one of players login 10 days 2 times in a day last month does this count 1 mau,10 mau or 20mau? Lastly my opinion is its hard to predict how much professional tier cost and free tier limits the game design so it wont be reasonable to switch from free tier to pro tier if you dont plan to make radical changes in game like adding new currency.

Player Inventory

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Answer 1 · 2017-04-01T00:05:37Z

brendan answered Apr 1, '17

Yes, we're in the process of getting everything updated for the new pricing, and we'll be rolling out more details and better messaging around all of that soon - apologies that we've been a bit delayed on that.

The free tier is specifically intended for hobbyist developers - those for whom their games aren't their primary source of income. We are working on a route for the situation you're talking about, though - the indie who wants to move to pro, but is concerned about the possible cost if the title takes off before the monetization has really been ironed out. Our CEO, James Gwertzman, has been discussing that with our community in our Slack channel recently - I'll send you an invite for our Slack (which you can feel free to ignore, if you don't want to join). Basically, we're working on some possible approaches for "success insurance", so to speak. We'll update with info on that as we get that locked into our model, as well.

And MAU is "Monthly Active User". So, if a user plays your game one time in a month, that's one MAU. If the same player plays your game a hundred times in a month, that's still one MAU.

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Ilse Mul commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 05:53 AM

Is there also an overview of the Development tier? Right now it just says all features, but it says absolutely nothing about the limits, which, in a development environment, is pretty vital to know.

Multiple currencies, for one, is important in my game. I can imagine a simple thing like bronze, silver, gold can be in many games. It wouldn't help development if I could only have one of those currencies. In my game gamepoints, in example, are things that can also be earned for special things. It's a core thing in my game. If I couldn't use that during development it would greatly hinder me.
The same goes for inventory.

Additionally, those Modules, mentioned in the Professional pack... Several modules have been stated. Does this mean that we get, in example, the player's module for $1/1000 MAU and that we have to pay $3/1000 MAU if we want to include any of the other modules, like Commerce (pretty vital in a (MMO)RPG if you ask me) or Tournaments?

Another thing, on the overview page it's stated:

"PlayFab is the only backend platform that offers a free tier with no DAU or MAU player limits."

Perhaps you might want to check out your competitor GameSparks.......

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brendan Ilse Mul commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 06:27 AM

The development tier is really orthogonal to the question of which tier you're in. You choose a tier based upon the needs of your title - by default, it has the free tier limits, but once you've signed up for the tier you want to use to ship, it'll be set to that tier's limits for while you're in development.

The Mix and Match Pro tier is for developers who only need one or two modules. The first module is $1/1000 MAU, and basically, that'll be Player, since you'll need auth. The second would be $3/1000 MAU, bringing the total to $4/1000 MAU.

And we've thoroughly researched all our competition and stand by that statement. GameSparks (since you mentioned them) does not have a tier that is completely free, and has no limit on MAU.

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Ilse Mul brendan commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 06:47 AM

Thanks for the fast response!

Hmmm.. Okay, just to get more clarification, I'm building a MMORPG which has at least bronze, silver, gold and gamepoints as currencies (may get more in the future), it will have leaderboards per city (game starts with 8 cities). If I understand you correctly, I'd have to choose the professional plan (since that allows for more than 1 currency and more than one leaderboard).
For this I chose the Development so that I can build and test it. If I understand it correctly I don't have to pay anything during development. Am I correct at that?

Once I go to launch I start to pay:

$1/1000 MAU for the Players Module (since as you already stated you need that one to be able to login)

Plus $3/1000 MAU for the Commerce module (which is really vital in my game)

Plus $3/1000 MAU for the Tournaments module
Which would make a total of $7/1000 MAU. And I assume for every 1000MAU I pay an additional $7. Is that correct?

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Ilse Mul commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 06:05 AM

I couldn't add more in my previous reply, so I thought I'd add an extra reply:
Your competitor GameSparks offers a tier for Indies & Student where you don't have to pay a thing until you've got a good success:
Straight from their site (Indie/Student overview at GameSparks site):

Nothing upfront, and nothing until you have launched a game that achieves more than 100,000 MAU (Monthly Active User) per month. At that point, you will be charged 2¢ per MAU per month for every player above that 100,000 threshold.

Essentially GameSparks is free unless and until you achieve significant success: at that point we will naturally fall into a conversation about a bespoke deal.

And at GameSparks Indie/Student Package:

You can use all features of the GameSparks platform, as much as you like (subject only to our Fair Use Policy).

The main reason I chose PlayFab instead is because you guys let me have truly separate characters under a player's account with their own inventory, etc.

Seemed good to inform you of that.

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brendan Ilse Mul commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 06:33 AM

GameSparks also has a very different model for the core design of their service, making us architecturally very different. It's also worth noting that 2 cents per MAU works out to $20/1000 MAU, for comparison's sake. But we would always recommend that you evaluate both, and choose the one that best suits your needs. However, as I said earlier, we will be offering a "heading to Pro" type of offering for developers who aren't certain of their monetization model yet, and want to have no risk of winding up with a bill they can't manage. Again, you can read more about that in our Slack channel, and we'll be posting more on that shortly.

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Ilse Mul brendan commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 07:15 AM

Thanks, @Brendan! I am indeed comparing the two, seeing what fits my needs the best :)
I did notice the different base models and the pricing differences, but thanks for pointing it out :)

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Ilse Mul commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 06:14 AM

One last note: How is the assignment of plans done? Does our project automatically gets assigned to the Development tier?

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brendan Ilse Mul commented · Apr 01, 2017 at 06:33 AM

Think of development as a general "pre-release" state, which is distinct from tier. See the answer above for more info on this.

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Dylan Hunt commented · Apr 03, 2017 at 02:28 PM

Hm I didn't get an email or see a blog about this - where's the linK? They look similar to the old pricing if it's the main price page, now

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brendan Dylan Hunt commented · Apr 03, 2017 at 03:21 PM

The discussion here concerns the new pricing page and the details page linked to it. We'll be posting an update and a more detailed blog about the new pricing shortly.

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brokawaygames brendan commented · Apr 24, 2017 at 08:29 PM

Any news when the detailed blog about new pricing will appear?

Cause currently it looks like there is no usable entry tier for "risk-free launch" (the limit of 1 leaderboard and especially 1 virtual currency excludes the basic tier from usable options).

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Answer 2 · 2017-04-01T18:14:50Z

ponasoft answered Apr 1, '17

i just read all messages after the pricing updated and also answers here and i still dont know how pricing works. Lets say we want to use Players, Tournaments, Commerce, Content and Automation modules do we have to pay 13$ 1000 MAU or 1$ 1000 MAU but + 3$ for every second upgrade like 8x2 currency 250x2 inventory. new pricing system is really confusing and i also wonder about full platform. what is $299/month is it minimum treshold? if your game dont succeed and lets say you have less than 1k mau in your game you have to pay 299$ month?

Lastly i am an alone developer/student and i would not choose, try to learn and use playfab couple months ago if i knew about specially 1 currency limit which force me to design a game that i have done before with no iap which is downloaded 50k on adroid. It was not designed for earning money so i got less than 500$ after a year which is around less than 50$ a month. there was awful game design but i made that one to learn something and see if i can make turn based game i dreamed about. Now i have good knowledge to make a game thats have a small chance to rock but i am very concerned about if i code my game to start with free tier and move on pro later. i will need to start with no iap model and i wont earn anything significant unless i got massive installs. if i code my game to start with pro and without any marketing help i really dont know how much it will cost me and not sure how pricing will be when i really complete the game. will it be profitable even if my ARPPU is very low becuase i dont have a team which will handle marketing.

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brendan commented · Apr 02, 2017 at 09:30 AM

If you want to use all the modules (or really, more than 3), it's best to simply go with the all-inclusive plan at $8 per 1000 MAU, as that's a better value. As we've said, the updated pricing is a work-in-progress right now, and the feedback we've been getting from developers is helping us to shape the final format. It's likely that we'll remove the "Mix and Match" tier, since it seems to be causing too much confusion, and simply provide an "Intro to Pro" type of tier which provides all the services at a low rate for developers who are looking to move from being hobbyists (who the free tier is for) to being pros, but still need to get their monetization worked out. We'll provide more details on that as we solidify the new pricing.

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ponasoft commented · Apr 02, 2017 at 06:24 PM

Good to hear that. it would be perfect if there is no strict limits related to game designs but there is limits related to server costs like Data Storage, Bandwith or MAU which competitor does. That would help both playfab and indie developers.

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brendan ponasoft commented · Apr 02, 2017 at 06:43 PM

I don't follow what the distinction is in your statement. Our limits are selected specifically to limit the total cost each feature could generate. Our free tier, for example, provides for the use of all core features with very low limits, in order to ensure that titles can have any number of players at no cost. There is no equivalent to that in any competing service.

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ponasoft brendan commented · Apr 02, 2017 at 09:23 PM

i just wanted to say limiting devs with number of players or mau is better than limiting with 1 currency, 25 items per player etc.

First one will result lowering your server costs and i think if a game has many players he can earn and he better to go next level. Second one will limit dev like no iap system, no crafting etc. this is just my opinion and there are some good examples using similiar model like 100k MAU, X GB Data etc.

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Ilse Mul commented · Jun 01, 2017 at 10:55 AM

Hi @Brendan,

Thanks for your help! I just noticed I had looked at the wrong page, the Development tier was still in it. Because I looked at the wrong page, I thought there had been a change. :)

Thanks for the referral to mail. I'll see about that :)

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novincontact commented · Jun 01, 2017 at 04:44 PM

Hi,

I've released my game a month ago in a local store with your old pricing model and did lots of work to be under your limitations.

I've used 8 leaderboads to create daily leagues. and used 3 virtual currencies. So I should pay 1+3 dollars per 1k mau. My game has 250k users until now.

So it is $1000!!! It is 25 percent of my income!!!
If I knew your new pricing model I whould choose another sullotion or pay attention to new limitations...

It's really unfair to use new pricing model on a released game :/

Game ID: 8AE2

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brendan novincontact commented · Jun 01, 2017 at 06:11 PM

Actually, pricing changes don't impact titles that are already live - they're always grandfathered in. Also, as far as I know your title is operating in our free tier, so nothing would change for you in any case.

The only way we would need to re-negotiate a rate with a non-free tier live title is if the title's behavior was such that it was costing us more to operate it than it generated in revenue. And even then, we'd work with the developer on optimizing their service usage first, to see if they could bring down that cost.

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Answer 3 · 2017-04-06T15:55:46Z

lkenn78 answered Apr 6, '17

Hi @brendan,

We've been developing our first game on PlayFab for the last 2 months. We did our initial calculation on the old pricing model, and it worked for us. The new tier has put a gigantic spin on our finances.

Any idea when the new pricing structure will come in force? We're looking to ship in 3-4 months and will need to look for an alternative if its beyond what we can afford.

Please let us know soon !

Thanks !

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brendan commented · Apr 06, 2017 at 07:43 PM

We were just discussing this during our morning stand-up meeting, and getting all the info out on the updated pricing is a high priority for us. For right now, if you could just send us the details of your usage (what services you'll be using, what limits you need, etc.) to us in a ticket, we can work out the details with you.

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Dylan Hunt brendan commented · Apr 25, 2017 at 01:15 AM

Please remain competitive to GS :) they have a new partnership with Unity, it appears. You'll have to stand out~

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brendan Dylan Hunt commented · Apr 25, 2017 at 01:22 AM

Not sure what you mean - our base pricing is well below theirs, and the Unity partnership is for feature placement in their store, not for any additional functionality.

We will be focusing on keeping our prices low, but also on making sure we have all the features developers need. Being able to bundle them in a way that lets folks have the right features at a low rate is definitely part of the plan.

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ponasoft commented · May 14, 2017 at 08:17 AM

is there any news?

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brendan ponasoft commented · May 14, 2017 at 08:18 AM

Sorry for the delay - we'll be posting the new pricing model as soon as we can.

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Ilse Mul brendan commented · May 31, 2017 at 10:34 AM

Sorry to bump this, but is there any more news? I noticed the Pricing page has been updated. The only update I see is the removal of the Development tier and now only contains post-launching pricing, though. I'm specifically looking for information about the limits and such.

This gives me the additional question: Is there a plan for those who are still in development (pre-launch)? If so, are there any limits on that tier?

No matter what tier, would we be able to have more, in example, more inventory slots for an additional fee? If so, what additional fees should we think about?

Thanks! I hope more information comes available soon!

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Answer 4 · 2017-06-07T23:37:19Z

timscheiman answered Jun 7, '17

Sorry to just keep poking at this one, but the game manager's limits page and the playfab pricing page have been completely misaligned for a long, LONG time.

"email us" isn't really the answer, unless you're looking to not have new customers in the dev stage.

I love the heck out of this product.

Got it working in a day in GameMaker Studio (of all things...) on multiple platforms.

It's lovely to work with, and an awesome service...

I can feel the potential just from toying with it for 10 minutes...

but I mean at least let us know in one consistent fashion if we have 1 virtual currency or 8. One leaderboard or 25.

Honestly, we WANT to pay for PlayFab. We want to have enough users to warrant it and form that symbiosis with a back-end provider. We are happy to pay you.

The server-side things provided are awesome and work very well.

// side note

Maybe just charge based on cost? I know it costs piles of money to run servers... but one PlayFab dev with 100 MAU using ALL of the features isn't doing much harm. A "Candy Crush" using just one feature with some odd 500 million MAU would cost you a bit more. I'd love to see a pricing model based on cost. (be damn-near free for tiny customers, but make money either way)

Sorry for the long post. I am a fan. Just not happy with the current state of the website (or gamemanager page, whichever is incorrect)

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brendan commented · Jun 08, 2017 at 12:08 AM

The current pricing page was posted just after GDC, as a result of talking to folks there about pricing. You're correct that the limits on the details page doesn't match that of live titles (which I'm sure most folks appreciate, since they are more generous than those listed). We've been wrangling internally on the best way to update the pricing model for some time, and we're about to at update to remove the confusing (and honestly, invalid due to it not being of value to developers), "Mix and Match" tier.

The details page also doesn't serve the intended purpose, so we'll likely remove it, too - the limits you have are those you see in the Game Manager. No more, no less. If you ship a game using those limits, you can count on them remaining the same, barring any case where the title is abusing the service - in which case, we'd reach out to work with you on getting it resolved. We've never wavered from our commitment to not breaking any live titles.

And if you need higher limits, then yes, please contact us. We can work with you on the details.

FWIW, we are looking at offering a usage-based model as part of a more comprehensive pricing update later this year.

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timscheiman brendan commented · Jun 08, 2017 at 02:54 AM

Thanks for the in-depth reply.

I'm glad to hear the "Mix n' Match" tier is going away... that wasn't good.

As for the "Just after GDC" thing, that was three months ago, and we're talking about a webpage, and the promises therein. It shouldn't take more than an hour to make the pages align OR make the game manager have a bit of text floated at the top saying "These values are yours to keep if you joined before XYZ in the free tier... We are committed to them."

The months of confusion between the two just make me worry... I mean I know PlayFab isn't just you @Brendan, but it can start to look like a one-man operation when these things go on for months.

I get the impression from this conversation that you're well-committed, but nothing on the public-facing website says much of anything on that front.

Again, I'm having a helluva fun time using Playfab and I feel super powerful having it as a back-end... I am a FAN.

If there's plans for changing the pricing model, the first thing you should post is a blog to say when that will come out and what it might entail (even if not fully accurate).

(if the very important things can be done in a few hours, do them first. The current split is confusing.)

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brendan timscheiman commented · Jun 08, 2017 at 05:35 AM

Sorry this is causing you concern, but I can assure you it shouldn't. Nothing has changed about our commitments, and developers can have the limits they get on sign up in the free tier for their titles right now, or they can work with us on a pro tier or enterprise contract.

Simply put, the issue with pricing is how sensitive it is, and how strongly people feel about changes to it. We've only changed pricing a couple of times since launching the service, and we received a fairly extreme amount of feedback each time that made it clear that any change is disruptive and causes stress among our community. So, we've been following the path of caution in terms of the latest update, to prevent that.

Believe me, no one is more anxious to have the full update of our pricing complete than we are, but we don't feel that it would be of value to make the complete change until we have everything locked down, which is not a trivial process.

But that said, we are actively working on an update - literally right now, as we met today to talk through the details - which will simplify the pricing pages on the site and align them to our current model. You can expect to see that shortly.

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Answer 5 · 2021-06-18T18:35:05Z

KTI Dev answered Jun 18, '21

I'm having a lot of trouble with the pricing as well. I should have 750 free hours with my multiplayer server but I started getting charged after 403 hours. I never have more than 1 build running, and definitely never had two servers running for 28.13 hours. What is going on here.

Multiplayer : Vm instance hours

D2as v4 - Windows - East US
D2as v4 - Windows - East US
First 750.00 hours - Dasv4 - East US

28.13 hours
403.13 hours
750.00 hours

$0.196/hour
Free
Free

$5.53

$5.53
$0.00
$0.00

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brendan commented · Jun 18, 2021 at 06:41 PM

Let's keep this all in the separate thread you started on this: multiplayer server billing charging me when it should be free - Playfab Community

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